-= Gametoast.com =-

Now i know i have been making a few threads ranting about a few things but i just wanted to let you know i still love this mod.

One thing that has irked me when playing is the ballanceing of classes. All these added classes and half of them end up not being powerfull enough to survive one or 2 kills. Like the commanders... whats the point of having them if they only use a blaster????? and some of the other classes are just terrible , when im sith i end up just using the main infantry some times going sniper cus almost all of the other class's and bad. Im not knocking the dev team i just think some need to have different weapons added/ballanced out. As clones i use infantry till i get my commando and just rape it up with him for the rest of the match. I dunno if you are ever gona release another patch but if you do take a look at changeing up the classes a little please to get rid of the superioirity of one or 2 classes.

Personally I think the classes work, you just have to learn how to play with them.

When I'm using the commander, I usually issue a Follow Me command to two nearby troopers, the various buffs the commander carries improve the firepower and resistance of my little squad; the troopers provide me cover while I use the precise zoom-in function of the pistol to snipe on targets.

No offense, but you're the first one to ever complain about things not being balanced. Literally -- the first.person.ever. Again, no offense, but maybe it's you and not the pack. Hundreds (maybe thousands) of others think everything is balanced just fine.

That may be the case but i find cetain class's i never use due to the fact that ill run around with them get like 3 or 4 kills then die becuase of the lack of weaponry or somthing. Like the dark trooper for example he has a gun that pretty much shoots a force lightning and you have to reload after every shot. Sure he can jetpack around but that doesnt do anything when you land in the middle of a enemy base with 5 or 6 enemys right next to you and you have to kill them.

The sith are a big example the vibroblade guys take forever to kill someone and ussually get killed while running or hacking away at someone. To be honest im not trying to promote any other mods but bf extreme ballanced the classes very well and kind of opened my eyes to it. They had the commanders have upgraded rifles so they could accually do somthin other than give a .5% dmg increase and have a scope pistol. Troops like the dark trooper can accually land in the middle of a group of enemys and dish it out. it may just be me cus im a little picky i dunno. but like i said i tend to end up just sticking with one class becuase i see i get the most kills with it in the conversion maps.

Zeta333 wrote:Like the dark trooper for example he has a gun that pretty much shoots a force lightning and you have to reload after every shot. Sure he can jetpack around but that doesnt do anything when you land in the middle of a enemy base with 5 or 6 enemys right next to you and you have to kill them.

Zeta333 wrote:he has a gun that pretty much shoots a force lightning

Indeed. Use it.

Zeta333 wrote:The sith are a big example the vibroblade guys take forever to kill someone and ussually get killed while running or hacking away at someone.

They have that power-up thing that increases their resistance and damage, use it and you will be able to reach and kill your enemies.

You see, those units are not weak, it's just you who doesn't know how to use them.

Zeta333 wrote: but like i said i tend to end up just sticking with one class becuase i see i get the most kills with it in the conversion maps.

This is what it will boil down to - everyone will have a favorite class one way or another. I could go on and on about how certain aspects of the classes are balanced (simple damage dealing isn't balance, per se - in Battlefront Extreme you just have every unit able to kill quicker, which isn't balance so much as it tips the scale in favor of the [more accurate] human player). Sometimes there is more to it - you named the KotOR swordsman unit as an example - that unit isn't great against a lot of units, but it is fast, has both a buff and a healthpack, and can win one-on-one against most units. The Dark Trooper is another analogue - it's also a fast unit that can deal a lot of damage but only to a single unit at a time.

In singleplayer, people tend to prefer units that can deal consistent damage to many units- this works because AI have no individual strategy and are essentially just moving targets. This favors the damage-dealing units over specialized units (like the Bothan Spy, Dark Trooper, etc.). When you take out the human factor and compare it unit-to-unit, (you can watch the AI battle - this is the best test for balance) all of these do much better than one human would against AI in comparison to the multi-damaging units.

I know that's a bit to slog through, but the truth is (and many people don't bother trying to figure this out) that there's more to "balance" or good side design than just simply letting everything do a lot of damage.

Maveritchell wrote:The Dark Trooper is another analogue - it's also a fast unit that can deal a lot of damage but only to a single unit at a time.

I disagree with you there, I find the Dark Trooper more effective against small clusters of enemies due to the chain effect of his weapon... but whatever, moot point.

I guess then some of these class are geared twords human players and massive games of 16 on 16 human combat becuase i can see where some of them like the spy would be great for geting in there and taking down the star player on the other team. But like you said the AI is just a moving target and has no tactics. ALso it might just be me but iv looked through the controles menu for a while and cant find the follow me button....

Becuase of my internet situation in my barracks i perfer to play offline games and want the AI to be more of a challenge. Has anyone ever experimented with changing the AI code to make it more difficult or so they work together and dont just cluster [Staff Edit] the capture points? Like id like to see fighter fly in formations , units moving on the ground covering each other in squad enviroment. A group of clone commandos going in and destroying a base?

If you want to play a game like you described, this is the wrong game.

Zeta333 wrote:ALso it might just be me but iv looked through the controles menu for a while and cant find the follow me button....

F4 is follow me, I believe, maybe F1. You can download the SWBF2 manual at this site, if the Steam download didn't come with it:
http://www.replacementdocs.com/download.php?view.3777

Zeta333 wrote:Has anyone ever experimented with changing the AI code to make it more difficult or so they work together and dont just cluster [Staff Edit] the capture points? Like id like to see fighter fly in formations , units moving on the ground covering each other in squad enviroment. A group of clone commandos going in and destroying a base?

This is a large-scale battlefield game - the AI code has to be (and is) relatively simple because of the large amount of AI the game must be able to handle at once. The only way to get the AI to do anything more advanced will be through scripting specific events - the game's AI itself cannot be "improved" by any mod.

Zeta333 wrote:I guess then some of these class are geared twords human players and massive games of 16 on 16 human combat becuase i can see where some of them like the spy would be great for geting in there and taking down the star player on the other team.

It's not that these units aren't useful in the SP game - on a balanced playing field, each of the units will serve a purpose. However, SP isn't a balanced playing field, which is why (as I mentioned above) certain units will seem better, because they can take advantage of the imbalance more obviously. If your targets don't move much, it doesn't matter what weapon you use, you can take them out pretty easily - things like this mitigate some of the units with powerful and quick weapons designed for one-hit KOs, which is why units like rocketeers and some special classes feel underpowered in SP.

What that means for you is that you should play the units you like. It doesn't matter if the units all appear perfectly equal in your eyes - any given person will find a favorite class anyway. Use that, and know that for the AI, their balance is A-OK (and remember this every time you get killed by an AI Bothan Spy. It will happen. A lot.).

If you're looking for some mods geared towards the singleplayer, I won't do the disservice to the Conversion Pack of specifically advertising, but feel free to check out some of my other mods. Like you, I like playing SP moreso than MP, and most of what I work on I try to include a significant and viable SP component.

Well you cant say the AI code cant be changed becuase i could go into a nice wall of text on how to do it and what to do but it would take weeks of code editing map editing and pretty much would be mute on a game this old and becuase of the effort involved would be easyer to start building SWBF3 to go along with the impoved ai codeing. But yes i do with there were more scripted events like the galctic conquests or campain so if you know any mods that ad things like this toss some in my dirrection. Also one thing i noticed when playing the extreme mod is how better everything looks and i remember the creator saying he ajusted the look of some of the things like sharpness and such and i was wondering if its possible to do that to mods like the conversion kit or standard BF2 becuase i really like the way the impoved graphics make it look esspecially the way the blasters look when they are blasting in like a narrow hallway it glows. dunno im a graphics Diet Dr. Pepper though.

Zeta333 wrote:Well you cant say the AI code cant be changed

I can, and I will. The game's AI behavior is embedded in the executable. We are limited in our abilities to tell the AI to do certain things - we can create AI movement planning, use some specific preset AI goals, and use the occasional action hint node for the AI. That is really all. You can't get the AI to respond dynamically to new situations without specific scripting - and that isn't "improving" anything; those are just specific scripted events. The AI behavior doesn't change.

Zeta333 wrote:Also one thing i noticed when playing the extreme mod is how better everything looks and i remember the creator saying he ajusted the look of some of the things like sharpness and such and i was wondering if its possible to do that to mods like the conversion kit or standard BF2 becuase i really like the way the impoved graphics make it look esspecially the way the blasters look when they are blasting in like a narrow hallway it glows. dunno im a graphics Diet Dr. Pepper though.

All blasterfire glows. Different mods may use different laser textures. The Conversion Pack did not because it is designed to blend with stock SWBF2, not stick out. There are many different mods or maps with many different "looks" - I won't name them here but you are welcome to peruse Star Wars Battlefront Files or even Gametoast's own files section or released maps/mods forum, each of which include a huge variety of content.

AI smartness isn't part of the topic referred to by the first post in this forum topic. Hex editing or disassembling the game's exe is against GT's rules.

Topic locked for those reasons.