Page 1 of 1
problem adding a cape to a model [Solved]
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:03 pm
by Brucelciolino
I've been trying to add a cape to a model following this tutorial:
http://www.gametoast.com/viewtopic.php?p=210303#p210303
I put the cape inside the Dummyroot, I made the envelope and the cloth collision.
But then the tutorial asks to go to "File>Pandemic Tools>Create Cloth" and I didn't find that option.
But I found this one in ZE Tools>Cloth...
It's different from how the tutorial described but similar, so I used this one.
I marked the fixed points, exported and tried to add to the mod, but it gave an error and this message appeared:
And inside the game the model appeared with the cape without physics, just like it was before I tried to add this new model.
Re: problem adding a cape to a model
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:11 pm
by Sporadia
That's the error you get when there's something wrong with your msh, and the mungetools have detected it. And I suspect the reason your model in game looks like the one before you started, is because it is the model from before you started. I think that error indicates that the broken msh didn't munge. I don't know what the actual problem is; the process you've described for making cloth is correct. I would also add that you should quadrangulate your cloth and triangulate your model before export, if it isn't already like that. And when you import collision primitives it sometimes breaks them, so you normally have to remake your collision primitives when you import. Or if you're making lots of changes that have nothing to do with cloth, you can delete the cloth and collision primitives temporarily then hex edit working versions on to the model at the end. Depends on how comfortable you are with a hex editor.
Re: problem adding a cape to a model
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:59 pm
by Brucelciolino
Sporadia wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:11 pm
That's the error you get when there's something wrong with your msh, and the mungetools have detected it. And I suspect the reason your model in game looks like the one before you started, is because it
is the model from before you started. I think that error indicates that the broken msh didn't munge. I don't know what the actual problem is; the process you've described for making cloth is correct. I would also add that you should quadrangulate your cloth and triangulate your model before export, if it isn't already like that. And when you import collision primitives it sometimes breaks them, so you normally have to remake your collision primitives when you import. Or if you're making lots of changes that have nothing to do with cloth, you can delete the cloth and collision primitives temporarily then hex edit working versions on to the model at the end. Depends on how comfortable you are with a hex editor.
the inside of the cape is transparent, do you think that could be the reason for the error?
Re: problem adding a cape to a model
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:19 pm
by Sporadia
No I think the problem is happening in xsi. If I had to guess about the visibility of the cape, it looks like it only has polygons facing in one direction, so it can only be seen from that direction in-game. But converting it to cloth will allow the polygons to be seen from both sides in that case. The reason why xsi has exported a broken/unmungable msh is still a mystery to me. I've had it happen to me once but it was because of something I accidentally did when I was modelling. Then I went back and redid everything and it didn't happen again.
Re: problem adding a cape to a model
Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:07 pm
by Brucelciolino
Sporadia wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:19 pm
No I think the problem is happening in xsi. If I had to guess about the visibility of the cape, it looks like it only has polygons facing in one direction, so it can only be seen from that direction in-game. But converting it to cloth will allow the polygons to be seen from both sides in that case. The reason why xsi has exported a broken/unmungable msh is still a mystery to me. I've had it happen to me once but it was because of something I accidentally did when I was modelling. Then I went back and redid everything and it didn't happen again.
I recorded this video so you can see if I'm doing something wrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO8LALJRH5s
Re: problem adding a cape to a model
Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:05 pm
by Sporadia
I see a few problems. I'll start with the one that's probably breaking the export: Don't use the scale transformation on your collision primitives. Change the size of the spheres using the properties window (when you first make the sphere, or double click on the sphere in the explorer). The only collision primitive where it's ok to use the scale transform is the cube (according to the docs, I haven't verified this). You also can't change the proportions of the spheres like that; they need to be perfect spheres, not spheroids. You can however change the proportions of cylinders in the properties window, and like I say I don't know what works for cubes/cuboids. Supposedly for a cube you should keep the properties that it's made with, then just use the scale transform, which is the opposite of what you do for spheres and cylinders.
Second, quadrangulate your cape before you export and it will perform better in game. Cloth works best with quadrilaterals, whereas the main polymesh works best with triangles. (It's also worth knowing that faces with 5 or more vertices can mess up the ZETools exporter, so always reduce everything to triangles and quadrilaterals).
c_b_spine is an unusual choice. c_ribcage, c_pelvis and c_head are what the stock models usually use for this kind of cape. Along with a c_l_thigh, c_l_calf, c_r_thigh and c_r_calf to stop it falling through the legs. (Also c_bone_b_spine is definitely wrong, you should replace the bone_ with c_).
Finally, it looks like you're only enveloping the whole cape to bone_neck, which is another thing that stock models typically don't do. Conventionally, you would envelope this cape to bone_ribcage, bone_l_clavicle and bone_r_clavicle. And then you would need to set the weights (you haven't set the weights in the video, but it's also all enveloped to one bone so I understand it wasn't necessary). The only weighting that matters for cloth is the weighting on the fixed points. But for this you would typically weight the left hand side to bone_l_clavicle, and weight the right hand side bone_r_clavicle. Then a couple of central points near the neck can be weighted to bone_ribcage. But most points can be weighted to the clavicles.
Everything else looks good.
Also I don't know if you have weld boundary points/edges checked on the import msh settings. It's up to you if you want to do that. But you'd have more control over how much your model deforms if you uncheck that setting, then perform a manual weld boundary points/edges from model > deform > polymesh then set the slider to something like 0.001. In this case it doesn't look like it matters though.
Re: problem adding a cape to a model
Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:47 pm
by Brucelciolino
Sporadia wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:05 pm
I see a few problems. I'll start with the one that's probably breaking the export:
Don't use the scale transformation on your collision primitives. Change the size of the spheres using the properties window (when you first make the sphere, or double click on the sphere in the explorer).
The only collision primitive where it's ok to use the scale transform is the cube (according to the docs, I haven't verified this). You also can't change the proportions of the spheres like that; they need to be perfect spheres, not spheroids. You can however change the proportions of cylinders in the properties window, and like I say I don't know what works for cubes/cuboids. Supposedly for a cube you should keep the properties that it's made with, then just use the scale transform, which is the opposite of what you do for spheres and cylinders.
Second, quadrangulate your cape before you export and it will perform better in game. Cloth works best with quadrilaterals, whereas the main polymesh works best with triangles. (It's also worth knowing that faces with 5 or more vertices can mess up the ZETools exporter, so always reduce everything to triangles and quadrilaterals).
c_b_spine is an unusual choice.
c_ribcage,
c_pelvis and
c_head are what the stock models usually use for this kind of cape. Along with a c_l_thigh, c_l_calf, c_r_thigh and c_r_calf to stop it falling through the legs. (Also
c_bone_b_spine is definitely wrong, you should replace the
bone_ with
c_).
Finally, it looks like you're only enveloping the whole cape to bone_neck, which is another thing that stock models typically don't do. Conventionally, you would envelope this cape to bone_ribcage, bone_l_clavicle and bone_r_clavicle. And then you would need to set the weights (you haven't set the weights in the video, but it's also all enveloped to one bone so I understand it wasn't necessary).
The only weighting that matters for cloth is the weighting on the fixed points. But for this you would typically weight the left hand side to bone_l_clavicle, and weight the right hand side bone_r_clavicle. Then a couple of central points near the neck can be weighted to bone_ribcage. But most points can be weighted to the clavicles.
Everything else looks good.
Also I don't know if you have
weld boundary points/edges checked on the
import msh settings. It's up to you if you want to do that. But you'd have more control over how much your model deforms if you uncheck that setting, then perform a manual
weld boundary points/edges from
model > deform > polymesh then set the slider to something like 0.001. In this case it doesn't look like it matters though.
I did the collisions as you said and the errors continued, then I realized that I was in an old version of ZE Tools and updated it, now I am able to export the model into the game but the cape is not showing.
This is the "all_inf_kylo_cape":
I tried changing the "attachedmesh" to "kylo_unmasked_Mesh_001" which is the name of the model inside the "DummyRoot" folder and I also tried changing it to "override_texture" which is the name of the folder with the model skeleton, but neither of them worked.
Re: problem adding a cape to a model
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 12:12 pm
by Sporadia
Why all_inf_kylo_cape.odf? Why not imp_inf_kyloren_cape.odf?
Also attachedmesh = uses the name of the .msh so you were probably right the first time.
Re: problem adding a cape to a model
Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:29 pm
by Brucelciolino
Sporadia wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 12:12 pm
Why all_inf_kylo_cape.odf? Why not imp_inf_kyloren_cape.odf?
Also
attachedmesh = uses the name of the
.msh so you were probably right the first time.
IT WORKED!
I changed the cape ODF name to the cape model name inside the DummyRoot and it appeared
It looks bad because I haven't added all the collisions yet or enveloped it with all the bones needed, which I'll do shortly, but the important thing is that it's working
Thank you for your help
